John English, sj in conversation
with Barbara Peloso
Barbara, as well as her husband Peter, has been a close friend and associate of John English for years. She was part of the original Christian Life Communities established in Kitchener and Guelph. With Peter, she served a term as co-president. Along with participation in the CLC, she is engaged in the ministry of spiritual direction.
JJE - I think that in 1973 a group from Rome, the Christian Life Community, came and suggested that we become the centre for CLC. In 1975, I gathered a group of people together and most of these people had done Annotation 19. Out of my spiritual direction, with women religious and their difficulties, I felt that my one-on-one direction wasn't really meeting many of their basic issues with their superior, the governance of the communities, and the way the religious were interacting with each other. With Remi Limoges, Margaret Brennan, Suzanne Breckel and Gordie George we began what we called the "Discernment Christian Governance Workshop". This program was basically with women religious councils. The workshop was about ten days long. We developed a whole set of exercises, a great number of them known as the Communal Graced History Exercises. At a meeting with some other Jesuits in Milford, Ohio I talked to George Schemel. George was doing something similar at Wernersville, PA and so we decided to come together and see if we could just work and talk around grace-full, social structures. Out of that came ISECP - Ignatian Spiritual Exercises for the Corporate Person. BP - If you were to highlight only one aspect of the communal and its importance to the spiritual life, what would it be? JJE - I think that the basic message of the Gospel is that we are to love each other and we are to take care of each other. Is it just taking care of them with compassion or is it to work with them to develop what we call just structures? This of course ties in with the whole liberation theology movement and the whole faith and justice thrust of the Jesuits. In the gospel passage where the two sons of Zebedee want to have their special place and Jesus says very strongly, "I didn't come to be served but to serve" and he said we are to be the least with each other. We get this sense of the communal. BP - How has your image of the communal evolved over time? JJE - The sense of the community was going to be the instrument to spread the kingdom, the instrument by which just structures got developed, and the instrument for helping religious congregations of women deal with their issues. At the beginning we worked basically with "how do you help a group make a communal decision" and "how do you establish those structures that will create communities and help them in turn make decisions". Gradually, in doing this kind of work what became very significant was the sense of communal spiritual consolation. What starts to develop is a new sense of identity as individuals start to identify their individual selves with a communal group. Out of that comes a new identity and a new spirituality. BP - What obstacles did you see to the development of the communal or do you see presently in the development of the communal in today's church and society? JJE - I think the big issue is the movement from an individualistic spirituality to a communal spirituality. It's not only in spirituality that this is found but it's in our Western or Northern culture where the competitive understanding of life is the dominant understanding of life in the culture, wherein we see ourselves as little, isolated monads. What that does then to the individual is to take away any sense of relationship with others and then individuals start to relate to God the way they relate to their culture and so their spirituality is a one-to-one with God. I think that the new age spirituality is highlighting that individualistic approach to spirituality. I guess there are some new age efforts where there is a kind of communal thing going on, but it's more a kind of hype type of thing rather than a charity, love kind of thing. BP - So the hype is to get the individual in the group to feel good as opposed to mobilizing the group in the service of the world. JJE - That's right. The reason for the communal is the service of the world, to help a group of people to move forward, to make decisions for the betterment of humanity. This changes your image of yourself vis-a-vis God. Where do you find God now? Do you find God in the vertical or do you find God in the horizontal inter-communal effort. Now, you can see this shift in the Eucharist because in the old days the priest was at the far end of a long rectangular building looking at a crucifix on a wall and looking up with his back to the people, and the people were all single individuals sitting in their pews relating to this action of God and seeing themselves, in some sense, as individuals at prayer. Now when you realize with Vatican II that it's the community that is offering the Eucharist when the priest is present, the whole communal setting changes to a horseshoe-style amphitheater and people can see each other and get a sense that the total group is offering the Eucharist. One of my concerns always in the Eucharist is when I'm looking down and I see people with their eyes closed and nobody's even looking at the action on the altar let alone being aware of each other in the Eucharistic action. The Eucharist can be presented as an individualistic spirituality or it can be presented as a communal spirituality. My understanding of Jesus is that it was the community that was offering in the Eucharist, that the community had a sense of the resurrected Jesus. BP - Was there a pivotal experience that helped shape your view of the importance of community? JJE - One time in
a CLC situation one of the married couples was in quite serious trouble,
even to the point of separation and possibly divorce. Everyone else in
the group said, "We have to support these two people, not pass judgement
on them but be on both sides and keep inviting them to come back to our
community meetings". And that is what we did as a group. What happened
eventually was that the couple did come back and they did share. These
were quite painful experiences for the whole group because it was obvious
these two people were not getting along. But through a series of incidents
they did come back together and they did in some sense fall in love again.
They told us that if it hadn't been for the CLC they definitely would have
separated permanently and divorced. What happened here was a real sense
of the power of community, of the way in which the sharing of your life
can open two people up to each other, and make them realize they were accepted
just the way Jesus accepts everybody. This would be one of the pivotal
experiences of the importance of the communal for me.
BP - What do you see as the hope filled signs in the development of the communal in today's church and society? JJE - Well, in today's
society the global village is the sign precisely of that sense of the communal.
The biggest issue here is that we're moving towards it from the viewpoint
of Western capitalism and that is individualistic in thrust and origin.
We are becoming more conscious of how we are inter-dependant. As the population
of the earth expands we have to find a way of living together because the
competition will kill us off. We've got to find ways of dealing with how
to keep people alive, as far as food is concerned, and how to keep them
with a certain lifestyle without destroying our earth. That becomes a communal
effort.
BP - Where do you see small faith communities fitting into the general concept of the communal in the church? JJE - Well, if what I just said is significant, that this requires a conversion, a change of heart, a change of mind, where do you start? You have to start, it seems to me, with the small faith communities, because there people share their inner life with each other and grasp the sense of the communal in it. Art Baranowski I think, felt strongly that a parish should be a community of communities, and indeed, the bishops have spoken of the church as a community of communities. You need a context for people to share deeply their inner life and when they do that they discover their inter-connectedness and they discover how God has been working not only with them but with others. You need the small faith communities to pull that off. It is very important, though, that the small faith communities don't become little, exclusive cliques. Their purpose is not just for themselves - although that is one of the purposes - but to assist the larger community. They are supposed to make serious decisions for the sake of the rest of the church and for the world for that matter. In Western and Northern cultures today the people get isolated so quickly that families get broken up. In the old agricultural setting the families tended to stay together and work the farm together and you could say the family was a community. It wasn't just parents and children, it was uncles, aunts, grandparents -- so you had a group of adults working together. The small faith community is basically made up of adults. You can also have children with the adults, but it's not a family in the ordinary sense for you've got different adults coming together sharing their faith. I think that is really significant in the small faith communities. It is the instrument to get the thing started. BP - What strikes me there is not your own experience, but rather the experience of the CLC and working on a retreat team that functions communally, and your experience with George Schemel and that Scranton group that have been so pivotal for you on your own journey. JJE - I must say it was the Jesuits as well. We found that in the small settings the Jesuits could come together, could share the Jesuit charism, and could make communal decisions much easier than the total body could make a decision. BP - Is there anything else that we've not touched on with regard to the communal that you feel is important to be addressed? JJE - What I think
is quite important is to see how the sense of the communal is present in
the Old and New Testament. This is what Vatican II is calling us to - returning
to our tradition with the people of God image. In the Old Testament, of
course, it was always Yahweh relating to Israel as a people and so the
prophets were there to be the voice of God to the kings and the leaders.
The imagery was kind of a marriage relationship between God and the people
of Israel. So they had a sense of themselves as a saved people. Now, they
did become conscious of individual responsibility, especially that of the
leaders. The psalms are supposed to be written by King David and many of
his laments are about himself as leader of the people. He even says to
God, in one place, well I'm responsible for this so why are you doing this
to all the people? That sense of identity actually stayed in the culture
pretty well up to the Middle Ages, that sense that the King was the people
and so if the King was killed something happened to the total nation.
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